Eurotrip 2011, Part 9: Palace Living (Roman Style) in Split, Croatia

Split, Croatia

This installment covers Days 21–22 of my 2011 trip to Europe…

November, 2011 – We woke up very early in Zagreb to catch the train down to Split.  It was a unique journey.  We rode one train for a while, it stopped in the middle of nowhere and everybody on the train transferred to a bus. The bus then took us to a remote train station where we waited for another train to pick us up—this was all part of the one ticket we bought (apparently there was some issue getting a nonstop train, though we were able to on the way back).

In all, it was about a 4- or 5-hour ride, and there was some pretty scenery along the way. The following photos were all taken with my cell phone from a moving train, so they are of lower quality, but still a good representation of the Croatian countryside:

We arrived in Split that afternoon.  The moment we stepped off the train we were accosted by people aggressively trying to rent us rooms. We had already reserved a room, so we left the gang of prospective landlords behind and made our way into the city—and an amazing city it is.

Our first view of Split after exiting the train station.
Later we would be climbing that hill to the left all the way to the barely visible flag at the top.

Our primary reason for visiting Croatia had been to see Dubrovnik.  We knew we would visit other places along the way but did not have anything specific in mind. A friend of my uncle’s recommended Split and when I looked at it on the map, it looked like a good halfway point between Zagreb and Dubrovnik, so I booked us three nights. I’m so glad we decided to stay there because it is truly one of the most remarkable cities I’ve ever visited.

Split is built in and around the palace of the ancient Roman Emperor, Diocletian. The old palace structure houses everything from apartments to shops and restaurants. The city is completely integrated with the usable parts of the palace; I’ve never seen anything like it. But I’m getting ahead of myself.

After exiting the train station we headed down to the waterfront and I called the landlord with whom we had arranged a room to let her know we had arrived. She told us to meet her at a church near the waterfront. So we strolled along the water, eventually coming to the main waterfront and getting our first look at the magnificent, palm tree-lined Riva promenade.

The Riva

We met the landlord and she showed us to our apartment, a tiny upstairs room a little outside of the main city, but still within easy walking distance. After settling in and changing into shorts (the weather was unseasonably gorgeous for early November; it was even warm enough for shorts at night), we headed into the city.

As you walk around the core of Split, inside the ancient Roman palace walls, you are often strolling on the very same roads used by the Romans, still intact and lined with ancient temples and other structures. It was great to take all of this in at our leisure, but part of me wishes we had taken a walking tour with a guide who could have filled us in on the history. I did have a city map with points of interest marked, so that helped.

Palace Ruins
The square beyond the columns is one of the main squares of the city core.
The Bell Tower
An ancient Roman road and some more ruins.

For our dinner that night we decided to eat in one of the outdoor cafes along the waterfront as the sun set. I don’t recall much about the meal but the view of the Adriatic alone was worth the price of admission.

The view from our table.
Split at sunset.

Later that night we toured the sublevel of the palace. There isn’t a great deal to see down there, and they were prepping for an exhibit so there were a lot of anachronisms such as flat screen televisions, but because the architecture is identical to what the main floor of the palace would have looked like, walking through the sublevel gives you a good idea of what it would have been like to meander through a Roman palace in its prime.

One of the sublevel rooms.
We stepped into this cool courtyard during our sublevel tour.
Could almost be the set of a movie about Ancient Rome.

The next day we climbed the Marjan, a hill overlooking the entire city. The hike took a couple of hours with stops for photos of the countryside and some interesting vegetation that reminded me of something out of an Elder Scrolls game. The views along the way and at the top were breathtaking.

A zoomed-in view of the waterfront from halfway up the hill.
We made it!
At the top with the Croatian flag.
The Harbor
Zooming in on the other side of the city.

After returning from the climb we had some pizza for lunch and then walked around the city some more. Later that night we headed a bit off the beaten path for a nice dinner in a cute restaurant. We also booked an excursion for the following day to nearby Krka National Park to view the beautiful waterfalls, which will be covered in the next segment. In the meantime, here are a few more photos taken at night:

Some of the ruins with shops visible underneath.
An example of stores integrated with the palace interior.
The Riva

View more photos from Split

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The Cat and I

I’m not a cat person, never have been, never will be. I prefer the warmth and emotion of a dog to the seemingly cold stare of a cat. My family have never been cat people; we always had dogs growing up. The last time I tried to pet a cat it dug its claws into my hand and wouldn’t let go, so I pretty much steer clear now. I don’t see a scenario where I would ever live with a cat, but a recent discussion brought me back to a brief time in my life when I did.

When I was a kid my grandparents lived on a farm in a small town called Meshoppen, nestled in the mountains of northern Pennsylvania, just off Route 6. On a side note: Route 6 is a beautifully scenic (occasionally scary) road that winds its way through the mountains, a highly recommended drive if you happen to be in the area (my wife and I detoured through there once on our way back from Niagara Falls, totally worth it).

During the summer our family would make the long drive from South Jersey for a visit. One year my parents dropped me off to stay by myself. They would return later in the summer to pick me up. I don’t recall how long I stayed, it likely was a shorter duration than I remember, but our fondest memories have a way of growing larger and grander as the years go by.

While I was there I had the time of my young life: wandering around the big farmhouse and exploring the grounds that featured a pond, wooded hills, and a barn where you could climb to the loft and swing down off a rope to land in the hay below. It was like one of those summers you read about in books.

One day my grandparents brought home a kitten and offered to let me name him. I called him Garfield, despite the fact that with his gray and white fur he looked nothing like the cartoon cat–I guess it was the only cat name I could think of. He took to me immediately and we were inseparable during my entire stay. He followed me all around and when I lay down he would climb on to my chest and sleep there, his body rising and falling in that funny, heavy way he had of breathing. Our friendship was the highlight of my summer.

When it was time to go back home, I was sad to leave Garfield behind but took comfort in knowing that I would see him again. However, not long after returning home I received the devastating news that Garfield had died. It turned out that his heavy breathing was a symptom of a medical problem, something that had afflicted him since birth. I can’t help but wonder if my disposition toward cats would be different now if I had spent more time with him, had watched him grow from a kitten to a cat, but it was not meant to be. Looking back, I am glad I was able to give him affection and companionship during his short life. He gave me so much more in return.

I’m not a cat person, but for one summer of my youth, I had a cat that I loved. I’ll never forget Garfield. He will always hold a special place in my heart.

Liebster Award

liebsterI have been nominated for the Liebster award! It’s always nice to be recognized by my fellow bloggers in the community.

The aim of the Liebster award is to get smaller blogs with less than 200 followers a bit of recognition, share some love and spread the word. There are some rules to follow though. You’ve got to play the game!

• Post the award on your blog

• Thank the blogger presenting you with this award and provide a link back to their blog

• You then need to write 11 random facts about yourself

• One good turn deserves another, meaning, you then need to find 11 other bloggers with less than 200 followers who you think are deserving of the award so that you can then nominate them! In other words, keep the love going and help small, new blogs get out there and get noticed!

• Finally, the award presenter will ask 11 questions of you which you need to answer and then you, in turn, ask your nominees 11 questions, and so it goes.

Here we go…

First, I would like to thank willc88 for nominating me for this award. I am always honored when someone takes the time to give my blog a shout-out, it encourages me to keep going. I look forward to reading more of his fascinating posts about life in Mexico City as my visit draws nearer. Please check his blog out here.

My 11 random facts:

1. I’ve visited several countries around the world but in my own country I’ve barely left the East Coast. In fact, the farthest west I’ve ever traveled is Fontana Dam in North Carolina, and since NC is on the East Coast, that’s not very far at all. This is something I’m hoping to remedy in the coming years with a cross-country drive out to Yellowstone.

2. I play the saxophone. Actually, I played until I graduated high school and then never picked it up again until my 40th birthday when I received a new sax as a gift. Playing again was like riding a bike, and I quickly joined a community band for about two years. I’m currently on hiatus from playing, but hoping to pick it up again soon.

3. My first trip to Europe in 2007 at the age of 36 was the first time I had ever left the country (not counting a trip just over the border to Niagara Falls, Canada in 2002). It was also the first time I had flown in 18 years.

4. I celebrated my 36th birthday in Munich, Germany.

5. I still have virtually every poster I’ve had since I was a kid, and most of them are hanging in my office, a room my wife calls Man World. The oldest poster is from the 1976 version of King Kong.

6. I wrote my first story in 2nd grade (I was about six years old), a haunted house collaboration with two classmates.

7. I’ve had the same best friend since I was five years old.

8. I once nearly drowned in a lake when I was very young. I was rescued by a friend’s father.

9. I love to cook. My specialties are Italian and Mexican dishes, as well as Asian stir fry. I also enjoy making creative meals out of whatever happens to be in the kitchen.

10. I play tennis and hockey.

11. I’m a TV and movie junkie. There are four DVRs in my house capable of recording a total of 11 programs at one time that can be watched in any room in the house.

Blogs I would like to nominate…

Alas, most of the blogs I follow either already have over 200 followers or have already won the Liebster award, so this list is going to be quite short. I will try to add more blogs to this list over time (I have a folder full of links to over 200 blogs I’m planning to visit as time permits).

  1. Rosemarie in Europe 2013 – a blog about an epic trip to Europe, including a hiking tour of the Italian Dolomites, with great photos.
  2. Living in the Langhe – This blogger is living the dream: to drop everything, pack up, and buy a house in Italy. I’m living vicariously through his posts. 🙂

And the questions I must answer….

1. If you could live the life of anybody in the world for a day, who would it be any why?

An astronaut, because outer space is the one place I’ll never have a realistic chance of seeing in my life.

2. Coke or Pepsi?

I gave up soda years ago, but I’m pretty much addicted to iced tea.

3. What is the worst thing you’ve ever eaten?

I’m not a very adventurous eater, so I don’t try too many new things. But there was this one dish I ordered when our group stopped at a restaurant in a rest stop in Germany. It was a rice dish but it had tons of mushrooms (which I didn’t realize when I ordered it) and it was awful.

4. If you were to go and live in another country, where would it be?

That’s a tough choice, Italy or Germany would be great, but I think the country I’m most drawn to is Switzerland.

5. If you had to give up one for the rest of your life, would it be beer or meat (pasta if you’re veggie)?

That’s easy: beer. I can’t live without bacon but I could live without beer, especially since I prefer something like prosecco anyway.

6.  What’s your dream job?

To be able to stay home, write, and earn a living off my writing.

7. If you could only ever listen to one album again what would it be?

I was going to cheat and say Pink Floyd’s Discovery box set, but I’ll go with Dark Side of the Moon, though Springsteen’s Born to Run also deserves strong consideration.

8. Why are you a blogger?

I’ve been blogging on and off for years and for many different reasons, but mostly because I just love to write. The primary features of my blog, travel stories and photos, evolved organically with the increased traveling I’ve done in recent years. Ultimately, my hope is to build an audience for my writing as I continue to seek an agent/publisher for my novel. To that end I also feature creative writing samples, but the main focus will still be travel and photography.

9. Would you rather have a girlfriend/boyfriend with the head and body of a person and the bottom of a giant fish, or a girlfriend/boyfriend with the head and body of a giant fish and the bottom of a person?

I think head and body of a person would be much more desirable than a fish head.

10. Do you have a pet hate?

I hate when people don’t take the extra two seconds to park straight and between the lines. I also get annoyed when groups of people don’t go single file when approaching you in a hallway or a sidewalk, forcing you to squeeze by them.

11. What was the last thing to make you laugh?

Last night’s Colbert Report.

And now for my questions:

I really struggled to come up with 11 questions. I tried to stick mostly with a travel theme, but I threw a few others in there as well. The first three questions I stole from the ones I answered above because I thought they were good questions to ask.

1. Why do you blog?
2. What is your dream job?
3. If you could live in one country other than your own, which one would it be?
4. What place is at the top of your bucket list to visit?
5. If you could live for a week in one era of human history, which would it be?
6. What do you like most/least about travel?
7. What is your favorite place you have visited?
8. What is your favorite food?
9. What person from history would you like to meet?
10. Do you have a favorite author?
11. What is your favorite movie?

Countdown to Mexico

Mexico City

I’m just about three months away from my Mexico trip: got all of my booking vouchers for the hotels and transportation, my new camera, and my Timberland low cut trail shoes for climbing those pyramids (at least the ones they let you climb). Now it’s time to start playing those Spanish learning CDs again.

I’m considering just bringing a carry-on suitcase for the trip, but I’m not sure about the practicality of doing so in light of how restrictive the TSA is about what you are allowed to bring. I’ve always done checked luggage in the past, but I’m thinking it would be nice to just hop off the plane and head to my destination, especially since I will be traveling by myself. It would also be convenient to not have to check a bag during my in-country flight from Mexico City to Merida, and to not have to lug around a large suitcase in between other destinations. I guess the big question is whether I will be able to fit everything I need into one small suitcase.

Have any of you ever traveled overseas for roughly a week with just a carry-on? How did you make out?

Below are a few of my destinations. I will have a little bit of free time in Mexico City and Merida, and a lot of free time in Cancun. If you have traveled to any of these cities and would like to share some tips about things to do, I would be most grateful. Thanks!

Three months is still a ways off but it will be here before I know it!

Teotihuacan
Merida
Uxmal
Kabah
Chichen Itza
Cancun

Playing With My Nikon (sounds dirty)

My very first SLR camera, the Nikon D5100, arrived last week and I took it out for a spin. I still have a lot to learn about the camera so I’m mostly shooting in auto and scene modes with jpeg quality. I’d eventually like to shoot exclusively in RAW to take advantage of the extra detail (my old camera took too long to write RAW photos to the card so I used it sparingly), but I’m still experimenting with the best approach for post-processing, so for now jpeg will suffice.

This first set of photos were shot in Allentown, NJ with the kit lens.

I’m digging the low-light performance.
I’m not positive but this one may have been taken with the in-camera HDR setting.

The photo below takes advantage of the camera’s selective color effect. I know I could probably achieve the same thing in photoshop, but I think it’s pretty cool that I can do it in-camera.

The next two photos were taken after my new Sigma 18-250mm zoom lens arrived. I wanted something versatile for traveling so that I can avoid having to change lenses and I think this will meet my needs (I love how fast it focuses). It even has a short minimum focusing distance, which allows me to take macro-type photos like the ones below:

Tiny green bug on a flower petal looking back at the camera.

Now that I have a good SLR camera it might be time to take this hobby to the next level and enroll in a photography class…

Cape May: Our Home Away from Home

Cape May: Sunset Beach

Every year around our anniversary (and sometimes in between), we head down to the southern tip of New Jersey for a stay in the lovely shore town of Cape May. We’ve been coming here regularly for over a decade now, to the point where we’ve come to think of it as our second home (I know the roads almost as well as if I were a resident). With nice beaches (including areas to take the dog on the bay side), beautiful Victorian homes, great restaurants, a charming pedestrian mall, and tree-lined streets, it feels like a small town that just happens to be on the beach rather than a town designed to be a beach resort like the other major shore destinations in the area.

If you stay in the northern end of town (as we usually do), with its neighborhoods full of well-spaced houses and green lawns, you can almost forget that you’re even at the beach. But you’re close enough to Wildwood that if you’re itching to spend a night on the boardwalk (and indulge in my favorite pizza, Mack’s), it’s just a quick drive up the coast. We enjoy staying in Cape May during the offseason, particularly in September when we can watch the Monarch Butterfly migration. Unlike other shore resorts that basically become ghost towns after Labor Day, you can pretty much have the same experience in Cape May as you would in-season, only with fewer people.  Our dream is to retire here.

There is so much to love about Cape May, but rather than describe it in words, I thought I’d just share some of my favorite photos taken over the last decade, starting with a few panoramas followed by a gallery of photos that vary in quality depending on the camera that was used. I know there are quite a few, but it’s hard to compress a decade’s worth of photos into one blog post. 🙂

Typical summer beach scene.
Higbee Beach
A view of some of the oceanfront properties.
Overhead view of the main part of town.
The canal that separates Cape May from North Cape May.
The Main Beach
Sunset Beach featuring the iconic sunken concrete ship
(which may not be visible much longer in light of how much it has sunk recently).

And here is the gallery. I had to keep the thumbnail images small so the page wouldn’t take too long to load, but you can click on any image to view a larger size.

Venice in HDR

Venice: The Grand Canal (original)
Venice: The Grand Canal (original)

Lately I’ve been messing around with HDR photography. Normally that involves merging multiple versions of the same photo taken at different exposures, but I’ve also read that you can create a pretty good approximation of an HDR photo from a single RAW image, so I figured I’d experiment with one of my older photos.

I thought the above photo of the Grand Canal in Venice was a good candidate given the contrast between the light and dark areas, so I used Adobe Camera Raw to create three different image files: the original photo, an underexposed version, and an overexposed version. When I merged them in Photoshop, the overexposed photo washed the image out too much, so I only ended up combining the normal and underexposed versions. I then applied a bit more processing to the final image.

I’m still very much a novice at this HDR stuff (and with photo processing in general) and I kind of rushed through it, so the results are not ideal, but I think the final version below is a decent first attempt at a pseudo-HDR photo. You can click on the photos to view larger versions.

Venice: The Grand Canal (HDR)
Venice: The Grand Canal (HDR)

Like many HDR photos, this has a bit of a surreal feel to it, but with a little more time to tweak settings, I probably could have made it look more realistic.

On a side note, this photo was taken with my Panasonic FZ-40, a megazoom point-and-shoot. I am considering upgrading to a DSLR and have been eyeing the Nikon D3100 or D5200. If any photographers out there have any advice about these (or other cameras), I’d love to hear from you. Although I’m never going to be a professional, I feel that I may be outgrowing the limitations of my megazoom, particularly its performance in low light.

Update:
Just minutes after posting this to my blog, I saw a deal on eBay for a refurb Nikon D5100 with a kit lens at a price that was just too good to pass up. I normally steer clear of refurbs but the company, Adorama, seems to have a good reputation among the photography community, so I pulled the trigger.

So it’s official, I’m a DSLR guy! Now, to shop for some accessories and a good all-purpose zoom lens…

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Mosquito Haiku Cycle

It’s been a while since I’ve posted something to the creative writing section of my blog, so in honor of the large, nasty mosquitoes that have already begun assaulting us on our patio (looks like it’s going to be a bad mosquito year), here is a haiku cycle devoted to the abominable bloodsuckers (a slightly modified version of one I wrote back in college).

Humid August dawn;
mosquitoes swarm into black
carnivorous clouds.

Mosquitoes cling to
saturated swimmers;
August afternoon.

Damp August darkness;
voracious frogs devour
fleeing mosquitoes.

All of the haiku I have posted so far have dealt with worms, crickets, and mosquitoes. Perhaps I have some sort of insect fixation. 😉

Eurotrip 2011, Part 8: Long Train Runnin’, Destination Zagreb

Flash Forward: Zagreb, Croatia

This installment covers Days 19–20 of my 2011 trip to Europe…

After our relaxing stay in Basel it was time to resume our trip. We hopped on the train in Basel at 9:30 a.m. for a roughly 15-hour ride that would take us through Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, and finally into Zagreb, Croatia. That’s a long time to be cooped up in a train, but on the plus side, our Eurail passes afforded us first-class seats for most of the trip, so the ride was more comfortable than the trains we had ridden in Italy.

And the scenery was breathtaking. If you like riding trains, I highly recommend taking one through Switzerland and Austria—I can’t imagine a more picturesque journey. Here are some photos from that part of the trip. The quality is poor because they were taken with a cell phone through the glass window of a moving train, but it gives you some sense of the beauty of the countryside through this part of Europe.

We arrived at the last stop in Austria late in the evening. The next train would take us into Slovenia and Croatia. The station was a bit creepy, tiny and isolated. Huge, long-haired guards were patrolling the grounds. They did not look like the kind of people you wanted to cross.

The layover was fairly long and we were starving. We had been on the road since the early morning without really having a meal. The only available food in the station was the finger food being served by a casino/bar, so we decided that we would wait and eat in the dinner car on the train. This turned out to be a mistake because the train to Croatia was basically equivalent to an old commuter train, so there was no dinner car, not even someone walking around serving snacks. Alas, we would not be eating until we reached Zagreb.

Riding through Slovenia at night was an interesting experience. It’s hard to put into words but it had a different feel than riding through Western Europe. I kind of felt like I was traveling behind the old Iron Curtain or something. When we reached Croatia we had a bit of a scare around 11 p.m. when Croatian police boarded the train to check our passports. One officer looked at my uncle’s passport for the longest time, and then began asking us questions about where we had come from and why we had no entry stamp.

I explained that customs never stamped our passports when we landed in France. He replied, “They must! They must! That is why we have stamps.” I thought we were going to have a problem but he finally said, “It’s not your fault,” and stamped our passports.  So word to the wise: when you land in a foreign country, make sure you get your passport stamped.

We finally arrived in Zagreb around 11:30 that night. It was obviously too late to go out for dinner so I settled for a sandwich being sold by a shop in the train station. Fortunately, the hotel was right across the street from the station, so we didn’t have far to walk. We didn’t do much unpacking since we would only be here one more night, so I gobbled up my sandwich, went online for a bit, and then straight to bed.

We spent the entire following day walking around the city. It was the only day we would have to check out Zagreb on this trip so we tried to make the most of it. We didn’t have any planned excursions; we just meandered and soaked in the sites. I noticed right away that more people spoke English in Croatia than they did in Italy, so I wasn’t at all hindered by my failure to learn any of the Croatian language before the trip. In fact, I don’t think I encountered one person in Croatia that didn’t speak English, a much different experience than in Italy, where the tiny bit of Italian I picked up before the trip came in very handy.

For lunch we had some good doeners (a Middle Eastern/European dish similar to a gyro) at a little café. Later on we snacked on some tasty fritule, which are like fried donut holes or zeppoles. Uncle Kipp had his with powdered sugar while I opted for cinnamon (I never turn down a chance to have something with cinnamon). Later that evening we had an excellent dinner at a cute restaurant called Hansel & Gretel that featured a rustic, fairy-tale décor. I don’t recall exactly what I had, but I remember that it was a very rich and creamy dish, and quite delicious.

Here are a few photos from our day in Zagreb:

We didn’t stay out too late because we had to be up early the next morning for our train ride down to Split, which will be covered in the next installment.

Zagreb was a hopping city, kind of like Croatia’s version of New York.  It’s a shame we didn’t have more time to take in all it had to offer, but who knows–maybe I’ll see it again.

View more photos from Zagreb

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Return of the Jedi 30 Years Later: Remembering Opening Day

A long time ago, in a movie theater somewhat far away . . .

The wait had seemed interminable. Three years to find out the fate of Han Solo, to learn if Darth Vader had been telling the truth about Luke’s father. Three years is forever to a child who had only been nine years old when The Empire Strikes Back ended with a major cliffhanger. But the day finally arrived: May 25th, 1983, opening day for Return of the Jedi.

I was heading to the theater in Deptford, NJ with my two best friends, Bruce and Kim. Kim’s dad drove us up to the theater early in the day so we could buy tickets ahead of time and walk around the mall until the movie started. This proved to be a brilliant move because by the time we returned to the theater the line outside was longer than anything I had ever seen in my life. We got in line and it continued to grow behind us, stretching back farther than we could see.

After a while, a theater employee started walking down the line and informing people that the shows were sold out for the entire night. If they didn’t already have tickets, they weren’t getting in. It was still early at this point, so a lot of people went home disappointed that day. I don’t recall how long we waited before finally getting into the theater, but we stood outside for a long time. You don’t really see lines like that anymore (except maybe in major cities) because movies now open in so many theaters. Back then, we didn’t have 20-plus-theater multiplexes. I think our theater had six screens, and only a couple of those were showing Jedi. Personally, I have never seen a theater line in the 30 years since that even came close to the one that day.

Watching the movie was surreal. The audience erupted in thunderous applause every time something good happened. I have gone to other movies where the audience cheered, but nothing like this. After waiting three years for a resolution to the most stunning cliffhanger in movie history, the audience was just ready to let loose. It was a communal experience.

Jedi frequently gets a bad rap, is thought of as the weak stepchild of the original trilogy. I think much of this is due to revisionist history, particularly where the Ewoks are concerned. Everyone my age liked the Ewoks when we were kids–if you claim differently now you are not being honest with yourself. But putting the Ewoks aside, the movie had spectacular sequences and set pieces: the rancor, the battle over the sarlacc pit where we got to see Luke kicking ass as a Jedi for the first time, the speeder bike chase, the battle over the second Death Star with more fast flying ships, lasers, and explosions than had ever been seen onscreen at one time. And the scenes between Luke, Vader, and the Emperor were some of the best of the entire saga (at least until Lucas retroactively ruined the climax by having Vader scream “No!” but that’s a story for another article.).

It may not have been quite to the level of its predecessors, but Return of the Jedi was still a thrilling and satisfying conclusion to the greatest movie trilogy of all time, and I will never forget that opening day. My friends and I still talk about it.